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Arcaist (talk·contribs) This user has declared a connection. (I am an employee of the university and have contributed significantly to the article, including bringing it to GA status. I believe that my edits have not been affected by COI, and I have not attempted to present the University in a particularly positive light (e.g. I've culled the list of notable people and expanded a section on poor student satisfaction). Please flag any of my edits you feel are problematic here or on my talk page.)
I commented out the quote from Thomas Jefferson as I'm not sure it belongs with the history of the university. link
The fact that Thomas Jefferson wrote to a family member doesn't seem relevant, also the emphasis seems POV (ok Thomas Jefferson thought the courses were great in 1786, but...). Any other opinions?
Does this really deserve the space and picture it has been given on the main article? The protest lasted from May-June, making it far more ephemeral than many previous student occupations (e.g., those of the recent UCU strikes!) which are (rightly) not given the same space. It seems, to me, to simply fall under the banner of student activism (i.e., should be left to footnotes in articles). The Anti-Apartheid Society of the 1980s, for example, does not even earn itself a mention on the Wikipedia page, despite it being far more effective, significant, and long-lasting. A University as old as Edinburgh cannot live under the tyranny of the present! Psychopompologist (talk) 20:38, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I added this section while the protest was in progress. Given that it was widely reported in the MSM at the time and there were sister protests in campuses across the country, and internationally, while hostilities in Gaza are continuing and protests are being conflated with antisemitism, the section covers matters current and notable enough for it to remain as is. Moreover, the UoE protest brought to everyone’s notice related concerns of responsible investment, causing uni admin to revisit the university’s entire investment policy with students as consultants. Moreover, remarkably, the students were not evicted from the quad, and more than 600 staff signed an open letter supporting the students’ actions. The hunger strike by 8 students took the protest beyond the common or garden variety. If you look through Wikipedia starting with the articles linked to, it is obvious that this remains a hot button issue. As world events change, and the Gaza situation is resolved, your footnote suggestion could be considered when the time comes. I’ll look into the Anti-Apartheid Society you mention too, as it may warrant a sentence, just as this Gaza protest probably will become in a few months/years time. I already added a section on UCU Industrial action here a while ago. Chrisdevelop (talk) 14:57, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Chris,
I appreciated your response but I write again, now some time has passed, once more to suggest the removal/minimisation of this section. Moreover, one should stress that your (subjective) view concerning the protests, and conflations with antisemitism, were not, in the first place, sound arguments for retention. Similarly, these protests certainly did not bring the issues you mentioned to 'everyone's' notice, as you claimed, for many colleagues and students in my own department were entirely unaware of the protest itself, nevermind the issues purportedly raised!
Further, it was not especially remarkable the students were not evicted, for this is University policy. Students have not been evicted from their occupations of DHT, Appleton Tower, or the Gordon Aikman Lecture Theatre. Finally, I have not seen any corroboration that a hunger strike actually occurred.
Gaza has been a 'hot button' issue for a long time, and while I appreciate your optimism that the situation might be 'resolved' it is ultimately not the point of this article, dedicated to the University more generally, to linger on an ephemeral and ultimately abandoned protest. Comparably, the articles dedicated to the wave of 2024 protests, would better suit your content:
Thank you for following this up. I suggest Arcaist (talk·contribs) as primary curator of this article look into this and give their view, since they already did a good job of pruning the section after my far more verbose initial post.
The hunger strike is independently documented in the citations, and news of it alarmed the Principal to the extent he expressed concern for the students' well-being in his pubic statements on the matter. The adduced secondary sources are sufficient to satisfy WP:OR and WP:SOURCE.
While I agree resolution of Gaza is not "the point of the article", neither the content nor the length of the section purports that it is.
Enclosed by the UoE's primary public-facing ancient building, occupancy of the Old College Quad as a protest site is significantly more disruptive and potentially damaging to the university's image than a protest in DHT, Appleton Tower, or the Gordon Aikman Lecture Theatre.
As per my earlier response, I agree with you that historical notable UoE student protests should be added to this section on student activism, and that the time has come for a reappraisal. @Arcaist: your thoughts? Chrisdevelop (talk) 00:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, @Arcaist is best placed to decide, but I feel compelled to respond.
I find it surprising that you would be surprised by this. You are, surely, aware that Old College houses only a single School. That is, if you do not study Law, or work in the Law School, you have no reason (beyond being an administrator) to be in Old College. Those of us at other faculties have no ostensible reason to visit South Bridge at any point in the academic year (beyond, say, remembrance ceremonies or a visit to the Talbot Rice). Of course, I noticed, as I took an interest in the protests, but many others did not. If you work and study at King's, for example, the entirety of Central Campus is nothing more than an ephemeral blur!
There is no 'independent' documentation, only the reporting of the students' own claims.
You used the word resolution, not me. I quote: 'As world events change, and the Gaza situation is resolved'. In other words, your defence for retention was predicated on the view that a resolution might bring public attention away from the issue, which simply won't occur.
Besides the fact that Old College is not 'ancient', it is also not the University's 'primary' public facing building (which is now, surely, the EFI -- open to the public). It you are of the view that Old College is emblematic of the University, perhaps I would concede it is Edinburgh's most recognisable University building (but only perhaps, for even the Wikipedia page first shows visitors McEwan Hall, and Edinburgh, unlike Glasgow, St Andrews, or, say, Oxford and Cambridge, has no University architecture to match their synecdoches of the GGSB, Sally's, the Rad Cam, or King's). However, the site was not chosen for such significance, but rather because there is grass on which to pitch tents! You couldn't hold such a protest at New College, or in the Elsie Inglis Quad, for there is no grass, and there would be no value in disruption in George Sq. Gardens, which does have some grass. If students desired to actually 'disrupt' the University, they should pitch tents in the conference centre at Pollock.
There is no section, or indeed even a mention, in the main article concerning the renaming of David Hume Tower despite significant national coverage (e.g., BBC News in 2020, The Scotsman in 2020, The National in 2020, more discussion in The Times in 2022, and the Scottish Daily Express in 2022, along with The Herald in 2023). This is unsurprising, of course, since it is contained albeit in a much too truncated form, in the article for 40 George Square. In other words, there is already precedent for the removal of such issues from the main page (even issues covered more broadly, and over a longer period of time, than the protests, such as the renaming of DHT). All the best, Dominic
This dialogue is descending into literalistic semantic point-scoring, and risks veering off-topic. I have responses to your responses, but rather than duelling to the Last Word, let's wait for Arcaist to weigh in, if I may mix sports metaphors. Chrisdevelop (talk) 14:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Chrisdevelop @Psychopompologist I'd be keen that we find a consensus, not just having me be the arbiter (but I appreciate the ping!). I understand having a relatively long section for "just" one protest looks a bit like recency bias, although I agree with Chris that the protest was very visible and received national attention, and we shouldn't try to minimize it at the first opportunity.
Dominic, was your suggestion to shorten the section or take it out entirely? I don't think the latter is merited just yet, but making it more concise (maybe by focusing on the outcomes rather than the demands) seems doable. Thoughts?
@Arcaist: Thanks for climbing in. Perhaps @Dominic, who has evident knowledge in the area, could look at initiating the task of fleshing out pre-2000 student activism - starting with 'Anti-Apartheid Society of the 1980s' Dominic mentioned in the OP. I started looking for information on this a while ago, and found an abundance, starting with the university archives, the National Library of Scotland, and The Student.
I don't share Dominic's pessimism that synecdochic Gaza will ever be 'resolved', but the live war and its potential escalation as an actor in an internecine global conflict between 'The West' and Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, and potentially other BRICS nations as co-combatants suggests it won't be any time soon. Chrisdevelop (talk) 12:40, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Chrisdevelop @Psychopompologist Gave shortening the section a go, losing about ~60% of the words. Chris, let me know if you feel I've removed anything crucial. Dominic, I think this is one of those things we'll revisit in time, and the section might well get shorter still. — Arcaist(contr—talk)14:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Arcaist:@Psychopompologist: Looks fine to me, thanks. I'll take a look at some of the child articles to see whether the prunings would sit well there.
Dominic, since you have raised this as a valid issue more than once - are you up for contributing pre-2000 research to the Student Activism section? Chrisdevelop (talk) 16:40, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In time, I could, but I am currently researching for a different sub article (the HCA, and the former departments of Greek and Humanity) so it would have to follow that. Psychopompologist (talk) 21:39, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Given that the AfD discussion appears to be primarily with just GuardianH and not the nominating editor, Emy Russell who hasn't weighed in after nominating, perhaps this could be escalated for wider discussion via other forums accessible from WP:XFD. I've just voted 'Keep'. Wishing you success! Chrisdevelop (talk) 02:03, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that's because it was called 'The Regenting System (Edinburgh)' until you edited it... The page is entirely on topic, once I return the correct title, since it discusses the peculiar aspects of the regenting system at the University of Edinburgh as largely distinct from St Andrews, Glasgow, and Aberdeen (e.g., Greek from the bajan class, examination by the town council, directly reformed by the Principal along Dutch lines, etc.).
This is, already, a long and dense article. I cannot see how merging the minutiae of Lee's theorised etymology of the word bajani and the various elements of what was taught to the Bachelors in the 16th would benefit this article (a general overview of the University and its history). Psychopompologist (talk) 16:08, 19 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
level-5 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
