Talk:Wharekahika

Requested move 22 April 2025

Wharekahika → Hicks Bay – More common and recognisable name, analysis posted below Traumnovelle (talk) 23:34, 22 April 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Valorrr ^{(lets chat)} 16:03, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Oppose, but neutral on the dual name of Wharekahika / Hicks Bay. I’m not convinced that the sources demonstrate consistent common usage of one name over the other, and other sources (eg. Maps, tourism guides, trusted historical encyclopedias such as Te Ara) use the dual name over the name Hicks Bay. As such, I don’t think there is rationale to move it to the proposed title, but if a move is wanted then the dual name (for which there is a lot of longstanding consensus to use in a New Zealand context) would be a far more appropriate option than what is proposed (and, as the official name, would align with WP:NZNC. Turnagra (talk) 16:17, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure where you got that idea that Te Ara uses the dual name. I looked myself and I only see these two: [1] [2] compared to these: [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] (There are more articles too but I believe the evidence speaks for itself)

I am not sure what maps you refer to but Google Maps (despite not being RS) uses Hicks Bay as does Bing Maps. Could you show these sources? Tourism guides are legally required to use the official spelling according to WP:NZNGS and I wouldn't consider tourist material to be reliable anyhow. Traumnovelle (talk) 19:55, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Extended content

New Zealand Herald uses solely Hicks Bay in these articles from the past year: [13] [14] [15] [16] New Zealand Herald uses both in these articles: [17] [ Stuff uses uses solely Hicks Bay in these articles: [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] (this last one is weird because it is in Maori but uses Hicks Bay) [26] Stuff uses both in this article: [27] 1news uses Hicks Bay solely in these articles: [28] [29] [30] [31] RNZ uses Hicks Bay solely in these articles: [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] RNZ uses both in this article: [38] The Otago Daily Times uses solely Hicks Bay in these articles: [39] [40] Volcano Discovery (it came up on Google News, I presume it is a reliable source) uses solely Hicks Bay: [41] Gisborne Herald uses solely Hicks Bay in these articles: [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] Gisborne Herald uses both in these articles: [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] Gisborne Herald uses Wharekahika solely in these articles: [52] [53] [54] [55] Google search data shows Hicks Bay remains the common search term with Wharekahika not even registering: [56] This is a quote but helps reinforce that Hicks Bay is still the common name for locals: [57] For Scholar I've gone with all articles since 2021 (over a year since name change) Those using Hicks Bay: [58] [59] [60] [61] [62] [63] [64] [65] [66] [https://doi.org/10.2307/27127989 ] [67] [68] (the actual editorial part of this work uses Hicks Bay, direct diary entries use both but the diary is from the 19th century) [69] Those using both: [70] [71] Using just Wharekahika: [72] (seems to refer to pre-European settlement) [73] Ngrams has issues and I haven't evaluated results (there is a Wharekahika River for example) but shows Hicks Bay as more common: [74]

• Support per nom's evidence above, I believe it meets the WP:COMMONNAME. Oppose any dual name, WP:NCNZ doesn't appear to provide an exception to WP:MLN (appears it was phased out if something did) so we use one or the other, unless the dual form is the most common itself. Of course, many of these are ongoing transitions so can be discussed again in the future should evidence prove otherwise. DankJae 20:09, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
• Comment: Both Hicks Bay and Wharekahika appear to be common names for the place and either would work as the article title. Hicks Bay may have more historical notability, given its association with Captain Cook's expedition. Setting that aside on the basis of WP:MPN and just looking at more recent coverage of the place as it is today, national coverage tips toward using Hicks Bay, while usage in the local Gisborne Herald is much more evenly divided, which seems to indicate that this pattern of usage of national media may not be reflected in the local area. Given this divide of usage between two common names, I would be inclined to retain the article title at its current location for the time being and see whether both local and national usage settle decisively in one particular direction (unless there is further evidence to show that the greater variety in the Gisborne Herald is mischaracterising local usage and there is no significant difference in practice). Tomiĉo (talk) 05:05, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

  >I would be inclined to retain the article title at its current location for the time being and see whether both local and national usage settle decisively in one particular direction

  Well it has been 5 years since the official name change so I doubt much will change in the near future. As to whether the Gisborne Herald represents local usage, the search data shows even in the East Cape that Hicks Bay is more common, without even account for searches for Wharekahika being about the river instead. Traumnovelle (talk) 07:02, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

Was the change to the Gazetteer a significant inflection point in change in usage, though, or merely a reflection that Wharekahika was also in use locally? It seems (from admittedly imperfect data) that both names were in circulation before that point. I do take your point though that Hicks Bay seems to be leading on most available metrics. Tomiĉo (talk) 08:29, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

It was renamed due to an act of parliament [75] and the Gazetteer does not distinguish between English and non-English names in any reliable form. Traumnovelle (talk) 21:22, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

• Support per nom's evidence in "Extended content" box. —  AjaxSmack  04:59, 10 May 2025 (UTC)