You lost me at ads for enterprise users.

Github is being undermined by Microsoft.

🍪 https://github.blog/2020-12-17-no-cookie-for-you/

so what github alternative is everyone using these days? asking for a friend.

"We are also committing that going forward, we will only use cookies that are required for us to serve GitHub.com."

Apparently in corporate terms, a "commitment" is now less than two calendar years of obligation. Good to know. Though, I guess I don't visit the marketing pages and hence, don't really care that much? Corporations being untrustworthy isn't new territory.

Literally just "business advice": Your marketing teams should be weighing the value of the data here against the cost of "yet another breach of user trust and commitment", user trust, of course, being something extremely hard to earn back.

Marketing people don't care about user trust or commitments. They'll just burn things to the ground and move on to the next corp job, each time making the world a slightly worse place.

This clearly shows that GitHub cares more about revenue than the user base behind it.

Microsoft fucking sucks, GitHub wasn't evil until Microsoft really started to abuse GitHub.

so what github alternative is everyone using these days? asking for a friend.

@TheMaverickProgrammer GitLab probbably.

I understand that cookies are helpful for analytics and gathering sales funnel data. It's always sad when companies don't keep prior promises, though 😟

If you must break the promise, here's my suggestion, for what it's worth: move enterprise marketing pages (maybe even all marketing pages besides the front page?) off of github.com onto a separate domain. Maybe github.info?

Then point marketing links from the front page to that domain.

This will allow folks to deal with that domain separately from github.com.

I personally feel that the enterprise version can be made independently.

As a happy GitHub user I just hope all this recreational outrage doesn't result in GitHub allocating more time or resources than would otherwise be required to complete this change. Full speed ahead!

As a happy GitHub user I just hope all this recreational outrage doesn't result in GitHub allocating more time or resources than would otherwise be required to complete this change. Full speed ahead!

I'd want GitHub to remove Microsoft, then continue full speed ahead

This change is only on subdomains where GitHub markets products and services to enterprise customers, and all other GitHub subdomains will continue to operate as-is.

Why are people getting so riled up when this change only impacts the Enterprise marketing subdomains? Makes no sense to me how this of all things is getting negative attention. Majority of people don't use GitHub Enterprise, as its only for businesses, And they're just cookies. Use uBlock Origin as it says if you really can't stand a few cookies on subdomains you'll probably never end up going to.

Also, people love pointing the finger at Microsoft, as if this change was demanded by them. It more than likely wasn't. There are always going to be changes that people don't like, but not all changes are influenced by the parent company. If Microsoft was puttng their hands all over GitHub, they probably would've moved GitHub to the Microsoft Policy Statement a long time ago.

Cuz GitHub said they wouldnt use cookies
daym its a borken promise

"We are also committing that going forward, we will only use cookies that are required for us to serve GitHub.com."

Apparently in corporate terms, a "commitment" is now less than two calendar years of obligation. Good to know. Though, I guess I don't visit the marketing pages and hence, don't really care that much? Corporations being untrustworthy isn't new territory.

Literally just "business advice": Your marketing teams should be weighing the value of the data here against the cost of "yet another breach of user trust and commitment", user trust, of course, being something extremely hard to earn back.

How exactly does this in any way impact user trust? It doesn't impact the main site, like the dashboard, the landing page, or any other part of GitHub like profiles, repositories, or organizations. It literally only impacts the enterprise marketing pages, and its for sales data tracking & analytics. GitHub Enterprise is a very business-oriented product, so the only visitors to those pages will be by business leaders potentially interested in GitHub Enterprise, or users who land on that page by mistake.

And I believe that is what GitHub meant when they said "to serve GitHub.com" - the main site (dashboard, repos, profiles, etc), not including stuff related to their Enterprise product, so I genuinely don't believe they broke their commitment. People are overreacting, as usual, to insignificant changes that don't really impact them.

Thats fine but fuck microsoft for existing

There's a reason this PR has 128+ negative reactions 👎

Also, they have, take a look at this PR.

@afkvido: Also, they have, take a look at this PR.

This was more than likely not Microsoft's doing. Not everything a subsidiary of Microsoft does is because of Microsoft itself. You have the vast majority of comments on this PR (at 8 comments), and your opinion isn't be all end all. Most of the negative reactions are additionally probably from people who don't understand the scope of what GitHub said back when they committed to not use cookies not necessary to serve GitHub itself - they probably didn't extend it to the Enterprise marketing pages to begin with and always meant the main site that serves repositories and profiles and such.

There are things worse than cookies by the way, like actual trackers embedded in web pages. Cookies are relatively harmless if used sparingly and for very specific purposes like tracking sales analytics or for keeping a user logged into their web browsers, or in a specific GitHub use case, tracking the current site theme. There is nothing wrong with stuff like this.

You seem awfully mad at Microsoft for some reason, as if they stole your pet dog or something. This isn't 2000s & early 2010s-era Microsoft, Microsoft is nowhere near as bad as they were when Steve Ballmer was the CEO of Microsoft. Ever since Satya became CEO, I have noticed a significant improvement in Microsoft's business culture and strategy. MS was way, way, way worse back when Ballmer was CEO.

(also, slight question, why upvote your own comments?)

This was more than likely not Microsoft's doing. Not everything a subsidiary of Microsoft does is because of Microsoft itself.

I don't know why anyone at GitHub would do this change, and Microsoft is the only other entity with the authority to make such a change.

You have the vast majority of comments on this PR (at 8 comments), and your opinion isn't be all end all.

I just poke in whenever this comes up on my GitHub notifications.

Most of the negative reactions are additionally probably from people who don't understand the scope of what GitHub said back when they committed to not use cookies not necessary to serve GitHub itself - they probably didn't extend it to the Enterprise marketing pages to begin with and always meant the main site that serves repositories and profiles and such.

That is a good point, however, that doesn't change the fact that GitHub is no longer the white and fluffy angel that it was.

There are things worse than cookies by the way, like actual trackers embedded in web pages. Cookies are relatively harmless if used sparingly and for very specific purposes like tracking sales analytics or for keeping a user logged into their web browsers, or in a specific GitHub use case, tracking the current site theme. There is nothing wrong with stuff like this.

While you seem quite intelligent, I don't think that you understand that cookies could actually be used as slight trackers, and if used to their fullest potential, complete on-site tracking for AI/ML based targeted recommendations for profit.

You seem awfully mad at Microsoft for some reason, as if they stole your pet dog or something. This isn't 2000s & early 2010s-era Microsoft, Microsoft is nowhere near as bad as they were when Steve Ballmer was the CEO of Microsoft. Ever since Satya became CEO, I have noticed a significant improvement in Microsoft's business culture and strategy. MS was way, way, way worse back when Ballmer was CEO.

Microsoft is still a mega-corp. They're still 'evil', just like Google or Apple. I also don't see much of a difference with the two CEOs. One was making more money, one was discussing ethics more often, but in the end, Microsoft is still somewhat invasive. To add on, Microsoft decided to absolutely RUIN Minecraft, a game that I don't really play these days, but my friends play a lot.

(also, slight question, why upvote your own comments?)

(also, slight question, why downvote my comments?)

I think that the cookies ought to be documented, so that you know which cookie means what.

I also think that they should avoid using confusing privacy policies; the mention of DNT should either be kept as is if GitHub uses the DNT header to reduce tracking, or deleted entirely if GitHub does not use the DNT header. If it does so only in some cases, it should mention what cases these are. The privacy policy made sense before the change in the section about DNT, although the change mentioned above makes it confusing (as other comments already mention).

Mentioning other programs such as Privacy Badger and uBlock Origin are OK, although it might be worth to add a disclaimer if GitHub is not affiliated with such programs, even if they are hosted on GitHub. (Since GitHub is used for many FOSS projects, it is likely that some of them will be.)

I have no problem with adding these non-essential cookies to the enterprise marketing pages, as long as the rest of GitHub can be used without it and it is documented which pages these are (and if the cookie domain is the same, also which cookies). Moving the enterprise marketing pages to a separate domain seems to me to be a good idea though, in order to be clearly distinguished (although a subdomain is probably good enough, in my opinion; as long as it is documented clearly which subdomains these are).

About alternatives to GitHub, I would not recommend GitLab because it will not display the files if JavaScripts are not enabled. However, it is acceptable to use GitLab if there are mirrors on multiple services. GitHub, Codeberg, and NotABug, and some others, also use JavaScripts, although the files can be displayed even if JavaScripts are disabled (even though there is a note that says enable JavaScripts, it is not required to simply view files), so it is acceptable. Another alternative is Sourcehut, which also doesn't need JavaScripts (and says that all features work without JavaScripts, although it still has some).

I don't mind GitLab, except that I have to pause for 15 minutes to finish laughing every time i see "Merge Requests"

What happened to this policy https://github.blog/2020-12-17-no-cookie-for-you/ ?

I guess it's a bit like Microsoft ❤️ Linux....

Can anyone explain how gitlab is supposed to be better in that matter ?

Can anyone explain how gitlab is supposed to be better in that matter ?

1. You can self-host it and then you're responsible for the data and it doesn't leak any of it and it doesn't track you.
2. They don't try to pull one over their users by trying to do the opposite of what they promised before.
3. You can also use GitTea or anything else. It was just an example for an alternative product.
4. They honor the Do Not Track header
5. (unrelated to this change, but still) It is not affiliated with shady tools like GitHub Copilot where they completely neglected the Legal concerns and opinions of the users.

5. they completely neglected the Legal concerns and opinions of the users

As they're going to do here. See? Contributors keep approving no matter what. They'll do the change, people will blame github, but then in 6 months no one's going to remember. Isn't this a comfortable way of doing business. Got something to say @Abo-Sofian? (not your fault you're just 1 more person that approved)

@dragonDScript, anybody is able to approve the proposed modification. "http://github.com/github/site-policy/pull/582#:~:text=Review%20required,with%20write%20access." should demonstrate that nobody at GitHub or Microsoft has approved this.

I Don’t Know Rick, Looks Fake to Me. 🙄😫😪🤑

@dragonDScript, anybody is able to approve the proposed modification. "http://github.com/github/site-policy/pull/582#:~:text=Review%20required,with%20write%20access." should demonstrate that nobody at GitHub or Microsoft has approved this.

Oh! My bad then. Thought they were actual GitHub or Microsoft employees. What I said is sad but true, it is what it is.

👍 nice

@Karmavil, I believe that the current hyperlinks are deliberately relative. Superior suggestion would be enclosure of them by HTML as "http://stackoverflow.com/a/24028648/9731176" describes.

lmao look at this recent editor "Aa1106443102". To avoid any heat they're just going to keep moving forward with this and use anonymous throwaway accounts to edit the policy. No one to throw your rocks at this way. Brilliant. Privacy is suddenly important for the company but not for its actual users.

lmao look at this recent editor "Aa1106443102". To avoid any heat they're just going to keep moving forward with this and use anonymous throwaway accounts to edit the policy. No one to throw your rocks at this way. Brilliant. Privacy is suddenly important for the company but not for its actual users.

I believe it was the account

https://github.com/olholder

That proposed the change. The account you listed merely reviewed it.

This is the account that likely is required to approve for this to merge https://github.com/literarytea

lmao look at this recent editor "Aa1106443102". To avoid any heat they're just going to keep moving forward with this and use anonymous throwaway accounts to edit the policy. No one to throw your rocks at this way. Brilliant. Privacy is suddenly important for the company but not for its actual users.

Directives always ruin companies, and they're the guys running them!

The first comment now is improved:

This change is only on subdomains, like resources.github.com, where GitHub markets products and services to enterprise customers. Github.com will continue to operate as-is.

That is good, although the actual text of the policy is this:

As described below, we may use non-essential cookies on certain pages of our website to support our enterprise marketing efforts and market our products and services to enterprise customers, for example on resources.github.com (collectively “Enterprise Marketing Pages”).

If it is true what you mention above, then it might be better if it says "certain subdomains" instead of "certain pages", maybe.

Also, the change to the section about DNT is still confusing, and should be corrected. (Myself and other commenters have mentioned some ideas about how to improve it.)

The privacy policy also contains:

Our emails to users may contain a pixel tag, which is a small, clear image that can tell us whether or not you have opened an email and what your IP address is. We use this pixel tag to make our email communications more effective and to make sure we are not sending you unwanted email.

This is not a very effective way to identify if the message has been opened. For example if the user is using a email program that does not display HTML email (such as Heirloom-mailx, which is what I use), then it will not work. Furthermore, it does not seem to help to "make sure we are not sending you unwanted email"; there should be an unsubscribe option if the message is potentially unwanted.

1.6k downvotes

https://change.org/GitHubCookies

WE MUST STOP COOKIES

@afkvido, don't spam junk, or at least utilize a normal font-size. I'm able to read it without it filling my screen. (@richardcox69, check that you haven't already approved it before approving again.)

Heirloom-mailx

What you say is true, however 99.9% of people use GMail (that's not a good thing). In the developer world, maybe 95%.

1.6k downvotes

No, it's 3 downvotes! You silly.

lmao @BEEDELLROKEJULIANLOCKHART thiking he gh staff or smth

I'm lazy

frog? waiting to be boiled up

... and don't want to have to learn how to use GitLab (or other platform's) UI.

3 more days

until it happens.

3 more days
until it happens.

You do realise everyone is telling you to stop, right?

lmao