Pipe Thickness Limits PDF
Pipe Thickness Limits PDF
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http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32044[09.04.2015 15:05:44]
CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
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27 comments Instrumentation
Spirochete61
Active Contributor
In service pipe thickness limits Mechanical Engineering
I been doing UT thickness gauging of process line in a petrochemical company, and have been asked a question by a colleague I cant Software & Programming
Join Date: Jan 2009 answer. I understand that on piping the ASME code allows a 12.5% reduction of wall thickness and still remain acceptable. I understand
Posts: 19 this to be true for new fabrication.
Sustainable Engineering
But wahat about pipes that has been in service for several years?
Transportation
At what point would a pipe be considered to be worn beyond its service life are require replacement? Is this a judgment call by the
owner/consultant?
Guest. #1
Power-User
"I understand that on piping the ASME code allows a 12.5% reduction of wall thickness and still remain acceptable"
That statement is not true/accurate and has been misinterpreted from the following discussion.
1. Determine applicable piping code (this example will use ASME B31.3)
2. From Section 304.1 - the minimum thickness (t m ) will be the sum of the thickness determined from the pressure equations (t) + 'c'
(mechanical allowances + corrosion + erosion)
3. The minimum thickness (T), for the pipe selected considering manufacturer's minus tolerance, shall not be less than t m
Your confused statement comes from the 12.5% manufacturer's minus tolerance (on most pipe specs but you must confirm according to
your exact pipe/purchasing specification).
For example, for arguments sake, say that you determine the value (t) for an 8" pipe is 0.322". Then you want to add, for
corrosion/erosion/mechanical an additional (c) 0.0625". You must then select the next higher nominal pipe size/thickness minus the 12.5%
tolerance larger than (t m ) 0.3845".
Therefore you would select, most likely due to availability, 8" Sch. 80 pipe (nominal = 0.500"; nominal - 12.5% underwall = 'T' = 0.4375")
NOTE 0.4375" > 0.3845"
-----------------------
For pipes that have been in service you need to look to your jurisdictional requirements, which most likely point back to the original code of
construction, or API 570.
The point at which a pipe is worn beyond its service life is when the corrosion allowance is gone and/or you have reached/gone under the
required minimum thickness according to the pressure equation of the applicable code. It is not normally a judgement call - it is usually
enforced by the previous paragraph, however, there are often allowances for a fitnesss-for-service test (API 579/ASME FFS-1) to be
administered to allow for variances and to determine risks.
01/18/2009 4:24 AM
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aurizon #3
Guru
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32044[09.04.2015 15:05:44]
CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
01/18/2009 11:39 PM
refer to pipe schedules and type of corrosive service. They will advise the wall thickness for the use of steel and other metals with nested
curves for expected years of service with a safety factor at various pressures.
It is cheaper to use steel and schedule it than buying totally non corrosive pipes. Then you replace it in toto after the life is done
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4
01/19/2009 2:12 AM
The following example demonstrates the definition of Pipe Wall Thickness Tolerance, which must to be taken into consideration while
calculating the pipe wall thickness for the new construction. This tolerance is only taken to avoid the decreasing in thickness due to
inaccuracy in pipe mill production. For this reason, all ASME and ASTM codes assume ±12.5% as a tolerance, and the worst case is when
you received that pipes with expectation of decreasing in its pipe wall thickness. So, we have to compensate that expectation by adding
Join Date: Feb 2007
what we call Pipe Wall Thickness Tolerance. Please see the following CR4 Thread: High Pressure Steam Pipe.
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 1746
Given : Code : Power Piping ASME B31.1
Good Answers: 241
Design Pressure (P) : 13 bar (188.5 psi), [oper. press. 10 bar (145 psi)]
Design Temperature : 180 o C (356 o F), [oper. temp. 150 o C (302 o F)]
Find : Minimum Theoretical Wall Thickness, t m & Minimum Nominal Wall Thickness, t
Factor, y = 0.4 (for carbon steel) [ASME Code B31.1, Table 104.1.2(A)]
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32044[09.04.2015 15:05:44]
CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
Solution : By substitution into equation, t m = P Do / (2 S + 2y P) + C
= (188.5 psi)(3.5 inch)/(2*15000 psi +2*0.4*188.5 psi) + 0.11811 inch = 0.14 inch (3.6 mm)
Which is the theoretical minimum for wall thickness without allowing for wall thickness tolerance.
The next greater commercial wall thickness is found from ASME B36.10 to be 0.216 inch (5.49 mm) which corresponds to 3" Sch. 40.
In other words 0.216 inch nominal pipe wall thickness is the commercial wall which, when reduced by the full tolerance of 12.5%, satisfies
the code formula for t m .
Important Notes.
1. When you evaluate an existing piping system (inservice), no way to deduct that tolerance from the actual pipe wall thickness to evaluate
the remaining strength, only the mechanical corrosion/erosion shall be considered.
2. Also, not in all cases that increasing of the pipe wall thickness is considered as advantage, where can decreases the MDMT.
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the minimum acceptance thickness for in service pipe should not be lass than the Nominal thickness (as per the pipe sch ) minus
Tolerance minus corrosion allowanace?
actually I used to take the actual thickness(in service pipe) and compare it to the Nominal thickness -0.125-C.A.
If the thickness of in service pipe Less than (Nom thick-0.125-CA) then I will go for cut and replace
is this true?
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AlBaigMughal #20
Participant In reply to #4
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32044[09.04.2015 15:05:44]
CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
07/09/2011 11:02 AM
Its perfect what calculations you did present here for determining the wall thickness for pipe according to ASME B31.3.My question here
is that can we perform the same steps [find tmin, then find t by using tm/(1 - Mill_Tol%) ] for determining the pipeline wall thickness for
ASME B31.8? ASME B31.3 gives formula to find MINIMUM WALL THICKNESS, but in ASME B31.8, we see the formula for finding
NOMINAL WALL THICKNESS (tnominal = PD/2*S*E*F*T ). Or simply, how can I calculate the Minimum Wall Thickness for ASME
B31.8?
I used to do the same steps for ASME B31.8 which you mentioned here for ASME B31.3 but one of my colleague told it wrong for ASME
B31.8. He told me not to include Mill Tolerance [t = tm/(1-c%) ] with ASME B31.8 as it gives formula for nominal wall thickness, not for
minimum wall thickness. According to him, once we find tm, we only have to look at standard tables (ASME B13.10) for next larger
standard available thickness as we have enough margin for accomodating the effects of Mill Tolerance. I am myself not convinced of his
comment but unfortunately, i cannot just find the "Minimum Wall Thickness" formula for ASME B31.8.
Would highly appreciate if you give explanation like you did for ASME B31.3 case. I need example as ASME B31.8 does not give sample
calculations like ASME B31.3 App. S.
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07/09/2011 1:00 PM
Dear AlBaigMughal,
The pipe mill tolerance is a request and demand by the code governing the pipe material specifications, and that tolerance is due to the
inaccuracy of pipe production process at mill (manufacturer). And that tolerance is ±12.5% as found at codes of ASME or ASTM for
Join Date: Feb 2007 material SA 106 or A 106. See the following page which extracted from ASME SA_106, where you can find the equation:
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 1746 tn x 0.875 = tm
Good Answers: 241
where, tn = nominal (average) pipe wall thickness, and tm = minimum pipe wall thickness
Therefore, when I use that material of ASME SA 106, whatever the applied code B31.3 or B31.8, I have to apply that mill tolerance to
avoid the worst case in reduction of thickness when it becomes -12.5%.
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AlBaigMughal #22
Participant In reply to #21
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32044[09.04.2015 15:05:44]
CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
Dear Sir,
I am sorry but I think I didn't make myself very much clear. Following is my real case which might help me make the experts clear my
problem:
NPS = 18
Corrosion Allowance = 4 mm
FORMULA:
P=2StFET/D
Re-arranging for t,
t = PD/(2SEFT)
where t = Nominal Wall Thickness, (as opposed to what ASME B31.3-2008 gives which is Minimum Wall Thickness tm = t + c,
according to 301.1.1 Straight Pipe General)
SOLUTION:
P = 1885 psig
D = 18 in.
S = 52,000 psig
= 0.4531 in.
t = 0.4531 in.
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32044[09.04.2015 15:05:44]
CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
Adding the Corrosion Allowance,
= 0.4531 + 4/25.4
= 0.6106 in.
= 15.51 mm
My QUESTION starts from here: Do we need to divide this value of t (0.6106 in or 15.51 mm) by (1-Mill_Tolerance%) ? i.e.,
(100% - 12.5% = 87.5% or .875 ) keeping in view that we have already found the Nominal Wall Thickness, not the Minimum
Wall Thickness?
t = 0.6106 / 0.875
= 0.6978 in.
= 17.72 mm
Is the above step of dividing the Nominal Wall Thickness by 0.875 really required? Once we have calculated the Nominal Wall
Thickness using formula, what we are going to calculate by dividing it with 0.875?
According to my colleague, we simply have to look at standard tables of ASME B36.10M for the very next larger value after
0.6106 in. or15.51 mm, which is .625 in. or 15.88 mm. We don't have to include the Mill Tolerance Step and so, we don't have
to see the next larger value after 0.6978 in. or 17.72 mm which is 0.75 in. or 19.05 mm. This is the point which I want you experts
to clear whether the understanding of my colleague is right or we should get the mill tolerance step included in our calculations which
leads to the greater wall thickness and so more cost. He seems to be right because the standard ASME B31.8 gives NOMINAL
WALL THICKNESS FORMULA, not the MINIMUM WALL THICKNESS as ASME B31.3 does.
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07/11/2011 9:35 AM
But note that the tolerance ± 12.5% is based on ASME material SA 106, but for material API 5L X52 the tolerance is differ, please
refer to the following Table 9 of API 5L "Spesifications for Line Pipe":
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http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32044[09.04.2015 15:05:44]
CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
From Table 9, for NPS 18, the tolerance shall be + 15% & - 12.5%.
Note. The worst case for reduction in thickness in both materials (ASME SA 106 & API 5L X52) are - 12.5%, which indicates that
your method of calculation is correct.
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AlBaigMughal #24
Participant In reply to #23
Thank you very much Mr. Galala for the correction of Mill Tolerance Values.
Its mean we should take into account the Mill Tolerance to calculate the Wall Thickness for Pipeline too, just like process piping
according to ASME B31.3?
Yesterday, I also went through the Canadian Standard CAN/CSA-Z184-M86 Gas Pipeline System which gives the same formula
to determine the pipeline wall thickness as ASME B31.8 does give, but the Canadian Standard defines the t as "Design
Thickness" not "Nominal Thickness", as ASME B31.8 does. I think the definition of "t" should be corrected in ASME B31.8 as at
present, it makes a lot of confusion by telling us it is "Nominal Thickness".
AlBaigMughal
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CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
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07/12/2011 2:38 AM
And pipe wall mill thickness tolerance is a request and demand by the standards and codes of material, and not necessary to
be included at code of design.
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MIKE86 #27
Member In reply to #21
Thank you very much for mentoring young engineering like us. However, if you are saying that no matter which code are ASME 31.1
or 31.8 we have to consider mill tolerance. but as per ASME code 31.8 para 841.1.1 Steel Pipe Design Formula is given for nominal
thickness and they also clearly mention that "F p design factor obtained from Table 841.1.6-1. In setting the values of the
design factor, F, due consideration has been given and allowance has been made for the various underthickness tolerances
provided for in the pipe specifications listed and approved for usage in this Code."
Question:1
Question: 2
I know, mill tolerance is not code requirement,it is requirement of material. Do you have any document reference which will prove that
it is material requirement and we have to consider mill tolerance in pipe wall thickness calculation ASME 31.8.
Regards
Mayur
Project Engineer
jackchen #26
Associate In reply to #20
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32044[09.04.2015 15:05:44]
CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
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rpocamp2 #5
Participant
The 12.5% is typically a manufacturing tolerance for some pipes and therefore would be allowed as such for new installation, relative to the
nominal thickness. Strictly speaking, however, not all manufacturing tolerance is 12.5%. It depends on the applicable ASTM specification of
the pipe. Refer to the proper ASTM standards applicable for the pipe and verify the manufacturing tolerance. Although 12.5% is considered
conservative.
The criteria for allowable thickness during its service life is the calculated net thickness at corroded condition. Therefore the service
corrosion allowance must be known. The minimum allowable service thickness therefore would be calculated as the nominal thickness
minus the manufacturing tolerance minus the corrosion allowance, for butt welded piping. For pipes that are threaded and grooved ends or
similarly prepared end conditions, the mechanical allowances are also subtracted to get the net thickness. Each pipe size has a different
mechanical allowance. Consult the piping engineer who has Jurisdiction. It would be proper to confer with him with this advice you are
getting. It is like getting a second opinion, at least.
After determining the minimum allowable net thickness as above, this would be the basis of comparing the measured in service thickness,
such that all measured service thickness greater than the minimum allowable net thickness is still acceptable for continued service.
Otherwise, the pipe needs to be replaced, since it has reached the end of its service life.
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01/19/2009 3:26 AM
We have to differentiate between Mill Tolerance and Manufacturing Tolerance. Mill tolerance is that tolerance at Pipe Mill (Mill is that
factory for producing pipes), where manufacturing tolerance may be means that tolerance while piping fabrication at workshop.
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01/23/2009 6:58 AM
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32044[09.04.2015 15:05:44]
CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
Please refer to the following CR4 Thread: Significance of "-Mill Tolerance" in the Piping Stress Analysis.
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strider6 #6
Power-User
it depends also on the Corrosion Allowance of the pipe. If the pipe is in cabon steel then it should have a corrosion allowace, have a look
on the piping class on the P&ID. as a first criteria if you have a corrosion aobve the corrosion allowance then you should change the pipe.
or you could do an RBI analysis or a fitness for service analysis (API 579)
http://www.hghouston.com/services_4.html
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01/19/2009 3:35 AM
Mill tolerance is differs from corrosion allowance, and in any case we have to take the both (mill tolerance & corrosion allowance) into
consideration, and in no way they depend on each other.
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Kwetz #9
Guru
01/19/2009 8:00 AM
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32044[09.04.2015 15:05:44]
CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
As already stated, the minimum wall thickness has to be calculated before purchasing the pipes by the authorized personnel.
When you make any wall thickness calculation (regardless pipe, vessel, valve...) it's really unusual you get just a "standard available
thickness". Normal case is to round off to the nearest high standard thickness. But in any case the minimum calculated wall thickness
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remain the same and it's the value against what you must make comparisons of UT measurements results.
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 717 If measurement is lower than minimum calculated wall thickness then repair or replace the pipe.
Good Answers: 25
There are even software to store the successive measurements and to predict the remaining lifetime of the pipe before it reaches the
minimum thickness.
BTW, and don't take this as agressive... What thickness acceptance value do you use for UT measuring?
Kind regards
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01/19/2009 5:37 PM
Hello Pitting depth is the concern, as well as wear. The defect will be convex meaning under neath the surface. 12.5% is hugh limit. I used
the inspect to .0030. You can visual the wear pattern and or make a wax impression. Remember 100 %,75%,50%,25%, then half that to
12.5%. Former UT inspector of aircraft engine parts.
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aurizon #11
Guru In reply to #10
01/19/2009 6:16 PM
The problem with steel piping and corrosion is the formation of small local cells that create deep pits. Once they hit the surface you can
get a leaker or a squirter.
When I was in the plany business, we had reams of corrosion schedules for different pipes, fluids and temp/pressure that took a
Join Date: Jun 2006 conservative approach. There were parametric lines for 5, 10,15,20 years that you had to stay within.
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Posts: 3576 Perry's Chemical Engineers handbook has some of them and points you to where to find more at the various societies that have
Good Answers: 95 accumulated tyhis data.
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CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
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Spirochete61 #12
Active Contributor
01/19/2009 7:18 PM
Join Date: Jan 2009 First of all thank you guyz for replying in my post, before when i was evaluating my the data in UT testing my basis for minimum wall
Posts: 19 thickness is -12.5% from the nominal thickness of the pipe.. So I think it is in correct for in service pipes...
After reading API 579-1/ASME FFS-1, to assesed the if the pipe is still serviceable you should compare the original design pressure to the
new maximum allowable operating pressure that have been computed base on the new wall thickness from the UT thicknesss gauging you
have conducted..
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Guest. #13
Power-User In reply to #12
For general wall loss you should still look to the original code of construction, whether that is B31.1, B31.3, ................
FFS (API 579) is more suitable for other defects such as localized corrosion, buckling, cracks, operating in creep range, ....... that are not
explicitly covered in the original codes - and is generally used as a "last resort" to justify running equipment longer until it it can
economically be replaced (i.e. not having to shut the entire plant down for a single vessel/pipeline).
(Having said that, and opening up the conversation for debate, have you specifically reviewed ALL of Section 4 and Appendix A of API
579?)
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01/20/2009 1:36 AM
Section 7 "Inspection Data Evaluation, Analysis and Recording" of API 570 "Piping System Repair, Alteration, Rerating and Pressure
Testing", is very interesting in evaluation of inservice piping systems. I have a solved example for determining the remaining life of a
piping system, can be derived upon your request.
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http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32044[09.04.2015 15:05:44]
CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
strider6 #15
Power-User In reply to #12
the final decision, in my opinion, shall be based on a risk assessment. It depends on what are the consequence of a failure, what is the
fluid.... sometimes the leak before break criteria is also used.
corrosion
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Spirochete61 #16
Active Contributor
01/20/2009 3:50 AM
@ Guest.
I have read Section 4 of FFS but the problem is the appendix A, my e copy is corrupted so i cant read some parts of it, if you can send a
copy of appendix A(Equations for determining MAWP, thickness, and stress in components), i would appreciate that or u just can brief me..
tnx again
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01/22/2009 3:15 AM
Dear Spirochete61,
The following is an example for determining the remaining life of a pipeline based on API 570 Inspection, Repair, Alteration, and
Rerating of In-service Piping Systems-Edition 98, Addendum 2006; SECTION 7—INSPECTION DATA EVALUATION, ANALYSIS,
Join Date: Feb 2007 AND RECORDING
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 1746 Remaining life (years) = (tactual – trequired ) / corrosion rate [inches (mm) per year]
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CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
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where
tactual = the actual thickness, in inches (millimeters), measured at the time of inspection for a given location or component.
trequired = the required thickness, in inches (millimeters), at the same location or component as the t actual measurement, computed by the
design formulas (e.g., pressure and structural) before corrosion allowance and manufacturer's tolerance are added.
And to find the corrosion rate to be used in equation (1), we have to compute the two components of corrosion rate: LT and ST and
select the greater value.
The long-term (LT) corrosion rate shall be calculated from the following formula:
Corrosion rate (LT) = (tinitial – tactual) / time (years) between tinitial and tactual
The short-term (ST) corrosion rate shall be calculated from the following formula:
Corrosion rate (ST) = (tprevious – tactual) / time (years) between tprevious and tactual
tinitial = the thickness, in inches (millimeters), at the same location as tactual measured at initial installation or at the commencement of a
new corrosion rate environment.
tprevious = the thickness, in inches (millimeters), at the same location as t actual measured during a previous inspection.
Example
Now, the Pipe wall thickness after 15, t 15 = 0.3789" (9.625 mm) = t actual
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32044[09.04.2015 15:05:44]
CR4 - Thread: In service pipe thickness limits
Long term corrosion rate (LT) = (t initial – t actual) / time (years) between t initial and t actual = (11.125 mm) – (9.625 mm) / 15 years = 0.1
mm/year
Short term corrosion rate (ST) = (t previous – t actual) / time (years) between t previous and t actual = (10.125 mm) – (9.625 mm) / 5 years = 0.1
mm/year
So, the Remaining life (years) = (tactual – trequired ) / corrosion rate [inches (mm) per year] = (9.625 mm) – (9.26 mm) / 0.1 mm/year =
3.65 years
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These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".
Abdel Halim Galala (9); AlBaigMughal (3); ANDREI (1); Anonymous Poster (1); aurizon (2); Guest. (2); jackchen (1); Khalid (1); Kwetz (1); MIKE86 (1); rpocamp2 (1);
Spirochete61 (2); strider6 (2)
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