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Requested move 14 March 2022

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 08:33, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Darkstalkers 3 → Vampire Savior – Vampire Savior is the name of the original arcade release worldwide (yes, including Western countries). Darkstalkers 3 is the name for the PlayStation port in Western countries, which came a year later, and features different characters. The main topic of this page is the original arcade game, with its derivatives (Vampire Hunter 2, Vampire Savior 2, and Darkstalkers 3) discussed in the Release section. TarkusABtalk/contrib 16:02, 14 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 20:28, 21 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 23:57, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose "Darkstalkers 3" seems to be the WP:COMMONNAME in the West. It's fairly likely that many more people have played it in its "Darkstalkers 3" home console incarnation than its "Vampire Savior" arcade version outside of Japan, and since this is English Wikipedia, it should default to what English-speakers are most likely to call it. A vast amount of Japanese games are localized a year or more after their Japanese release; but they still aren't called by their original names on Wikipedia. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 01:51, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Even if we start from the simplifying assumption that "Vampire Savior" and "Darkstalkers 3" are just two names for the same thing, I'm not convinced that the latter would be the WP:COMMONNAME. "Vampire Savior" seems to get significantly more hits on Google News, for example (here is an example of a publication using this name). Taking nominator's explanation of the history and significance of the two names into account makes the case for the move even stronger. Colin M (talk) 21:49, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I am still not convinced, as the Kotaku article you mentioned specifically notes that "the series is known as Darkstalkers outside Japan" and also says "Vampire Savior (aka Darkstalkers 3)". It is clearly noting that is the Western name for it and is only using the Japanese name as the tournament chose to use it on account of playing the arcade version. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 08:45, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Video games has been notified of this discussion. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him | talk) 20:28, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Common Name

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The name "Vampire Savior" is definitely the common name for this game in English in the current times. Though maybe that's obvious already, since a simple Google search comparison can show that. But I want to add, the reason for this is because the fighting game community overwhelmingly refers to the game as only "Vampire Savior", and they are the people who continue to promote the game and showcase it to new people. Though I don't know Wikipedia's rules on using official translated names for a region, since they did try to market the enhanced PlayStation version as "Darkstalkers 3". (Humorously, despite there never having been a "Darkstalkers 2".) But I do know that the same exact thing happened with "Garou: Mark of the Wolves", despite being called "Fatal Fury: Mark of the Wolves" in the English Dreamcast release. And yet Wikipedia here also chooses the "Garou" name regardless of the fact that the official release said something different, that old reviews said something different, and that "Fatal Fury" is a much more recognizable name overall.

Also, the series owner, Capcom themselves, has this game in their latest fighting game compilation, "Capcom Fighting Collection". And there, it is called "Vampire Savior". Even when the ROM version is set to English, the collection will show the games "Darkstalkers", "Night Warriors", and "Vampire Savior". Obviously because these are based on the official English arcade versions, but still, this is the game in question. It is called Vampire Savior. And it has also gotten additional future remakes under other names. But in practice, the only time people say "Darkstalkers 3" is when specifically referring to the PSX release, or when explaining the game's lineage to a neophyte. The PlayStation port is simply too old now to be the dominant way the game is remembered, and I'm pretty sure that game didn't even sell well in its heyday. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.198.6.167 (talk) 10:01, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Google search comparisons don't show anything, since results counts are largely randomized. They are especially meaningless in this particular case, since "vampire" and "savior" are both common words that are going to bring in millions of unrelated results. As for its listing on "Capcom Fighting Collection", we don't move a work's article every time it gets released under a different title, for obvious reasons. Martin IIIa (talk) 02:02, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Then learn how to put quotes around your searches, or how to search verbatim. Because "Vampire Savior" as a phrase is used nowhere else, except maybe a poorly written teen fanfic. As it stands, "Vampire Savior" is still overwhelmingly what this game is called, and has been its common name for like a decade now. And it continues to be used more and more each year as that is the ONLY name that fans refer to it by. As it stands, this is the only holdout Wiki that refuses to use the common colloquial modern-day name, in favor of 30-year-old shoddy localization. 2600:1700:46B0:EB30:CCF:3A93:EA5B:3441 (talk) 04:10, 7 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That's because Wikipedia goes by what the general public uses, not what a handful of fans think is the cooler name. And you failed to read the first sentence of my post: "Google search comparisons don't show anything, since results counts are largely randomized." Moreover, all putting quotes in searches does is move pages using that phrase to the top of the results; it doesn't eliminate pages which use only one word in the phrase from the results. Martin IIIa (talk) 17:06, 9 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"it doesn't eliminate pages which use only one word in the phrase from the results."
This is EXACTLY what the "Verbatim" setting does. And combining that with quotes ensures that only that exact combination of words are included. Just because you don't understand a search tool, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Though unfortunately, while you've been wallowing in ignorance, Google has apparently removed the total result count from search results, but I trust the original writer's assertion that "Vampire Savior" produced a larger result count. Tell me, when you originally responded to his claim, what did the counts show for you? I mean certainly you TRIED TO LOOK INTO IT before you immediately shat upon the idea, right? It would certainly be quite self-centered to claim that only "a handful of fans" call it this just because it's unfamiliar to you personally, despite it coming up as both the common colloquial name AND the original English release name. As I see it, the original writer provided evidence of his claim; can YOU provide any for yours? Or is it just "Trust me bro"?
Incidentally, looking at the current page, where apparently you just reverted this page back away from its proper name of "Vampire Savior" (and is this a recurring thing? Please tell me one person isn't lording over this page), the name inconsistency just sounds idiotic. I mean for one, the main photo directly to the right of the title literally says "Vampire Savior: World of Darkness" in gigantic letters. Are readers supposed to just completely ignore the tonal whiplash here? Additionally, I see this right in the title footnote:
"The arcade version is known in North America as Vampire Savior, and in Japan as Vampire Savior: The Lord of Vampire (ヴァンパイア セイヴァー ロード オブ ヴァンパイア, Vanpaia Seivā Rōdo obu Vanpaia)"
This makes no sense. Is this page NOT talking about the original arcade version? Why are we using a different name? The lede even says "Darkstalkers 3 [sic] is a fighting game developed and published by Capcom for arcades in 1997." There is no such thing as any game called "Darkstalkers 3" that ever existed in arcades or was published in 1997. The article goes on to describe the roster and mechanics of the arcade release "Vampire Savior", which is NOT the same as the PS1 updated game they named "Darkstalkers 3". And then later on, there's a section for "Home Version". No game named "Darkstalkers 3" ever got a home version, so once again we can see that this article is blatantly about the original arcade release called Vampire Savior. So since this is the game we are talking about, why aren't we using its actual name? Any title changes made during a singular 30-year-old home port conversion should simply be listed in the home port section. Especially when said home version is largely forgotten and everyone playing the game today does so on the arcade version. Which is also why he brought up the most recent release's name and that even the IP owner acknowledges the common name of Vampire Savior. So whether you want to use the official IP name or the common name, it's still going to be Vampire Savior either way. So to sum up: Vampire Savior is the common name, is the official name, and is the original name. I don't see any grounds for why this page needs to insist on using something else. "Because that's how it was before" isn't good enough.144.160.138.148 (talk) 18:44, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Your continuing difficulty with reading my posts and your assuming bad faith everywhere in the absence of evidence of bad faith anywhere do not serve to advance this discussion. Martin IIIa (talk) 23:08, 10 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I can read. And in fact I started this topic. Good to see it's gaining traction. I just remembered this page again after seeing another page where Wiki editors seem to have an issue understanding that localization names are not to be preferred over common names. I'm also not sure what part of your post you think was unread, since he did indeed address your confusion on how to use Google's Verbatim option, and what it does. And in good news, they actually haven't removed result counts from Google. You will see them if you have the Tools menu open. See let's see, "Vampire Savior", verbatim, "About 745,000 results." And "Darkstalkers 3", verbatim, "About 223,000 results." Yeah, pretty stark difference. And I can confirm that verbatim does not include any modifications to your search phrase. I end up having to use it a lot (Thanks Google). Actually, let's test, "Darkstalkers" with no number is... "About 17,200,000 results." Yeah, "Darkstalkers 3" definitely is not including anything without that exact phrase, otherwise it would be including the entirety of "Darkstalkers" also. And "Vampire Savior" is working no different, and I see not a single other thing that uses that title. Feel free to check any of this yourself.
So to collect what was mentioned above, there are 3 very compelling reasons why this article needs a name change:
1. "Vampire Savior" is the common name, by a ridiculously large margin. And in fact the rest of the top results are other Wiki pages calling it "Vampire Savior". This page really does stand out as an outlier. And the few results that use "Darkstalkers 3" exclusively seem to point specifically to the PSX game, such as sale listings, and not this game in general throughout its many ports. As per common name policies, this page needs to use the term that is preferred by reliable sources in referring to this game as a whole, and more modern sources should take precedence. And as per common convention on gaming pages, any name updates that occurred during a specific port can be mentioned in the appropriate sub-section for re-releases.
2. "Vampire Savior" is the official name. While not preferred over common name, it is also worth taking into consideration since all future releases will legally go by this name, which will make it become more widespread as time goes on. Aside from what I mentioned about the then-new "Capcom Fighting Collection" containing "Vampire Savior", all other modern storefronts are the same. If you want to buy this game right now on Steam or on the PlayStation Store, it is listed under "Vampire Savior: The Lord of Vampire". If you instead searched these current marketplaces for "Darkstalkers 3", you will find absolutely nothing under that name.
3. "Vampire Savior" is the original English release name. "Vampire Savior: World of Darkness", specifically. I agree with the above, it is indeed confusing that this article immediately starts off mentioning the specific platform, release date, and roster for the "Vampire Savior" version, while using the name "Darkstalkers 3" next to it. "Darkstalkers 3" was a separate release that has none of these things that are being ascribed to it.
If you feel that none of these reasons should be used to determine the article's title, then please let us know which Wikipedia policies say that these should be ignored, or any other facts you can provide to support your stance. And while Wikipedia policies do indeed say to not assume bad faith, somebody being in violation of such is still not making your supportive facts appear.
Also, looking up that "main photo" that was mentioned, I see that you in sole discretion replaced it with the PSX box art image. Ignoring the fact that the arcade flyer is kind of rare and probably shouldn't be scrubbed from the internet in favor of generic console box art, it does raise the question of whether you understand that this article is written about Vampire Savior as a whole, throughout its many iterations, and it is not about an outdated ancient console port of it. The game existed before that point, and still continues to exist today, in completely different formats. The entirety of this is what the article is supposed to be about.
And as I say a lot, Wikipedia's "move discussions" are a ridiculous farce. People clearly argue against facts, and yet their opinion can't get stricken because of it, or even when it is undeniably disproven. And this one specifically was determined by a grand total of... six people? Just random nobodies who happened to stumble upon this page during a short time period? Well, I'm sorry, my invitation must've been lost in the mail. Count me in as "Support". Great, now we have majority. Let's move it. These "votes" need to be open polls, where people can vote until perpetuity. So that if, in the future, the public consensus swings around, then we can act accordingly, instead of having to open a new five-man poll every year. But either way, keep in mind that these vote results should absolutely not be treated like gospel, and most certainly should not be mistaken for some High Court case involving actual appointed experts. 2600:1700:46B0:EB30:C8FE:4BCE:30D6:FE67 (talk) 17:13, 21 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 May 2025

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Darkstalkers 3 → Vampire Savior – Vampire Savior was the title of the game used for all regional versions of the game and is even used on the Capcom Fighting Collection compilation in all regions and it ought to be given more priority than the Darkstalkers 3rebranding that was exclusive to a single console conversion of the game. I was disappointed that I was not notified of the prior discussion, given I was somewhat involved in editing this article before. Jonny2x4 (talk) 18:07, 14 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support - In addition to what the nominator said, it's important to note that Darkstalkers 3 is actually a modified release of Vampire Savior. It features additions to the character roster and new gameplay options that were pulled from alternate versions of Vampire Savior in Japanese arcades (Vampire Savior 2 and Vampire Hunter 2). Darkstalkers 3 was only released on PlayStation, and later in two series compilations (Chaos Tower and Resurrection). It just so happens that there are an abundance of English-language sources talking about that modified version of the game, so naturally, a lot of the previous arguments on this used COMMONNAME in favor of "Darkstalkers 3", but I think that's a misnomer in these circumstances. TarkusABtalk/contrib 20:51, 14 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support In the same way that, say, Lunar Knights is not "Boktai 4" even though it pretty much is. We shouldn't be using non standard titles over the actual English name even if it was changed. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 00:22, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Honest question - I'm curious as to what made you change your mind from three years ago. Sergecross73 msg me 23:29, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Whether it is the same game or "a modified release" seems like a grey area at best, and irrelevant to whether the article should use the most common name for the article subject. If what you're saying is that Vampire Savior and Darkstalkers 3 are two different subjects, that is grounds for a page split, not a page move.--Martin IIIa (talk) 22:40, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - the proposal seems to be based around WP:OFFICIALNAME, and I'm hesitant to support a move/name without addressing WP:COMMONNAME. Sergecross73 msg me 23:25, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • It seems that most of the reservations are about common name. I looked at all the critic reviews listed on the Wikipedia article for 2022's Capcom Fighting Collection (the most recent release of the game), and pulled out how they identify the game:
    • Here in CFC, players can enjoy the first two entries Darkstalkers: The Night Warriors (1994), and Night Warriors: Darkstalkers’ Revenge (1995), as well as Vampire Savior, Vampire Hunter 2, and Vampire Savior 2 (1997) — revamps of each other that, essentially, form Darkstalkers 3.[1]
    • The entirety of the franchise is here, including the two alternate versions of the third game, Vampire Savior, which only appeared in Japan.[2]
    • Vampire Savior: The Lord of Vampire is Darkstalkers 3, with Vampire Hunter 2: Darkstalkers Revenge and Vampire Savior 2: The Lord of Vampire being modified versions of it.[3]
    • Vampire Savior, Vampire Hunter 2, and Vampire Savior 2 (All versions of Darkstalkers 3)[4]
    • The Darkstalkers line-up spans all five arcade releases, although it should be noted that Vampire Hunter 2 and Vampire Savior 2 are actually modified versions of the third game, Vampire Savior/Darkstalkers 3, that add and remove certain characters, and introduce speed and gameplay adjustments.[5]
    • Last of the pack here are the entirety of the Darkstalkers series including Vampire Savior (the third in the series) which has two follow ups Vampire Savior 2 (a roster update to Vampire Savior) and Vampire Hunter 2 (also a japanese roster update.) [6]
    • Not to worry. Darkstalkers: The Night Warriors, Night Warriors: Darkstalkers Revenge, Vampire Savior, Vampire Hunter 2, and Vampire Savior 2 present their varied rosters, balance changes, nerfs and buffs, warts and all.[7]
    • Vampire Savior: The Lord of Vampire (Darkstalkers 3) (English & Japanese)[8]
    • Since Capcom has stuck to the arcade versions, there is no version of Darkstalkers 3/Vampire Savior in here that includes all of the characters in the manner that the home versions did.[9]
Obviously I'm biased, but I don't see strong enough evidence here to go with DS3 when Savior is the original and official name of the base game. Destructoid's description is probably the most accurate, that "Darkstalkers 3" is an amalgamation of Savior, Savior 2, and Hunter 2. The literal opening sentence in this article, stating that Darkstalkers 3 is a game that was published for arcades in 1997, is false. TarkusABtalk/contrib 18:51, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I concur, Darkstalkers 3 was a common name for the game internationally at the time of it's console release, however that sentiment has since shifted. I've never seen anyone in the FGC not refer to the game as Vampire Savior. Which even without that between it being the original and continued name has better grounds to be used anyway. If it may cause confusion a redirect is all that's needed with a note. SK9ty1 (talk) 21:30, 25 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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