Talk:Shakespeare in the Park festivals

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Requested move 6 May 2025

It has been proposed in this section that Shakespeare in the Park festivals be renamed and moved to List of Shakespeare in the Park festivals.

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Shakespeare in the Park festivals → List of Shakespeare in the Park festivals – Hi there. This article is clearly a list, and not a very good one at that. I was about to do some copyediting work when I thought maybe it would be better if we moved it to "List of..." first then worked from there. Almost the entire body of the article is just listing the various examples but I thought I'd ask here as I could see this move being controversial.

Thanks, JacobTheRox (talk) 12:48, 6 May 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:59, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose. Yes, it's a list, but not every single list on Wikipedia needs to be named "List of XYZs". Often "XYZs" is sufficient. The proposed change doesn't seem like it'd help clarify things and the title is already on the long side. I don't think it'd hurt anything either, but no argument against the status quo has been made. (As an off-topic comment, I don't agree with the nominator ragging on the article as "not very good." It seems perfectly useful and serviceable to me.) SnowFire (talk) 14:33, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
To expand on why I think the article is "not very good", here are some things I have found so far that I think need to be changed:
- There are multiple instances of promotional language in the article, and lots of the entries read like an advert for that particular group.
- Most entries only have a single sentence about them, and usually only one source. Lots of the sources are the organisation's own websites.
- Just from scrolling through it in another tab as I write this, I can immediately spot five entries which are completely unreferenced.
- From a quick Google lots of these (especially the unreferenced ones) do not have significant coverage in sources, suggesting that there has been little attempt to establish whether different festivals have a level of notability reasonable enough to be in the article.
- The article is not properly wikified. I have already done some structure work but there are still lots of external links where there shouldn't be and language that doesn't fit Wikipedia. Another example of this is the "others" section under USA, which is a list of three no more or less notable than ones with their own subheadings so why are they there?
- From scrolling through the edit history, it is very clear to me that this article has been formed by people adding individual ones as they see fit, with no attempt at co-ordination or providing a holistic view. This is reflected in the fact that the entire article is not very in-depth about the Shakespeare in the Park concept itself, but rather is no more than a list, which is why I started this RM.
I hope this explains why I decided to brand the article "not very good", and if you'd like me to expand on any of these in more detail I will do. I am happy to fix all the above problems but I am very busy at the moment and think it better I leave it for a couple of months until I can sit down and properly sort out these issues.

Thank you for your comment, JacobTheRox (talk) 16:40, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
- - I don't want to sidetrack, especially if you're eager to improve the article, but even if we grant everything you say as 100% accurate, that still doesn't qualify as "not very good." There are some atrocious articles out there, what you describe is pretty common and just normal article foibles. But great if you want to improve it.
  - Commenting to note I'd be fine with a move to just Shakespeare in the Park per King of Hearts. SnowFire (talk) 13:33, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Shakespeare in the Park per WP:CONCISE. The "festivals" at the end is not really necessary as it is apparent from the title that it is some kind of event. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 20:37, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The line between a list and an article, especially a set index article, is not always crystal clear on Wikipedia. This at least has enough articleness that the present title makes sense and accurately describes the content. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 18:26, 8 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support alternative - Shakespeare in the Park per King of Hearts, I also agree that the article is a bit more than a "list" here, which makes this option seem a better fit.ASUKITE 15:40, 14 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Relister comment: While the original proposal does not seem to be receiving much traction at this time, this discussion might benefit from more opinions on the question of "Shakespeare in the Park festivals" vs. simply "Shakespeare in the Park". ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:59, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Shakespeare in the Park. The addition of lowercase "festivals" helps clarify that this article is about a type of festival and not one of the specific festivals with this specific proper name, nor only festivals with this proper name. Most of these festivals in fact have different names. "Shakespeare in the Park" is therefore over-precise. The current title qualifies as an exception under WP:PLURAL since the article deals with the group of festivals as a whole, as well as individual members of the group. The plural, in addition to the lowercase 'f', makes this clear. Maintaining the capitalization on "Park" is appropriate because "Shakespeare in the Park" is the proper name, or part of the proper name, of a plurality of these festivals. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 23:09, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose "List of..." per WP:CONCISE. This does seem to be more than a list, and without a parent article it needs no disambiguation. As to the even more concise Shakespeare in the Park, I tend to agree with Myceteae's comment just above. However, since Shakespeare in the Park is a proper name and not all the festivals bear that proper name, perhaps it should really be Shakespeare in the park festivals or even Shakespeare in the park or a more generic Outdoor Shakespeare festivals. That's probably for another discussion, though. Station1 (talk) 09:05, 19 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]