User talk:HaPe-CZ

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Data items

Hi, HaPe-CZ! That reason for Your edit at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Item:Q349&curid=206018&diff=2856561&oldid=2856556? Description seems to be correct. Something B (talk) 07:57, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

@Something B ... The description is not correct, an incorrect formula about the equipment is used. Specifically, ""fyzickou infraštruktúrou" / physical infrastructure" is completely inappropriate, misleading and confusing in Slavic languages. For a correct translation it is sufficient to enter the English description into the deepl.com translator (translate to Cs). There is no need to invent and create different item descriptions. Is that an intelligible explanation? --HaPe-CZ (talk) 08:17, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
Sample in Sk language: (translate to Sk) --HaPe-CZ (talk) 08:24, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
Any correct sentence in in language A can be translated to language B, sometimes lossy, but more or less correct. Exceptions is dead or constructed languages without corresponding words. Of course, any modern national language isn't this case. Something B (talk) 09:09, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
@Something B ... Yes, loss of information can occur, or inaccuracies in translation can occur. The original English sentence is quite simple. But is there a word for "physical infrastructure" in it? That is completely incorrectly inserted into the translation. --HaPe-CZ (talk) 09:15, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
I think that literal translation is correct in this case. "Infrastruktura fizyczna", "фізична інфраструктура", "физическая инфраструктура" is intelligible for me (I know some Slavic languages ​​a little). Something B (talk) 09:34, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
@Something B ...This is not about how to spell it in Polish, Ukrainian, Russian, Bulgarian, etc. It's that it doesn't belong in the text description at all. In this description, it's nonsensical and illogical context, incorrect meaning. In the original description (En) there is no physical infrastructure and the real object logically does not have it either. --HaPe-CZ (talk) 09:43, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
This topic about translations? Or about English description? If English description is incorrect, fix it first. Something B (talk) 09:50, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
@Something B ... The English description is correct. But the translation into Slovak is wrong. That's what's been going on all along!!! --HaPe-CZ (talk) 09:53, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

Description on data item and wiki page should align

Hi! It would be great if you could take into account that the description on the data item should be the same as the one on the wiki page of the key or tag, when changing descriptions, e.g. in English or German, e.g. on Item:Q6997. --Chris2map (talk) 13:10, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

  • Hi, I understand the requirement but in our language it would be nonsense. "Overhead line" is not used in our country, it would be an incorrect description. --HaPe-CZ (talk) 13:16, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
  • And see ... https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q110701 (Slovak) --HaPe-CZ (talk) 13:44, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
You misunderstood me, or I expressed myself poorly. Of course, the description can be different in different languages. I meant something else: In one language, the description text should be exactly identical between the entry in the data item and the entry on the corresponding wiki page. If even something as small as a period "." is added, it must be done on both sides, otherwise a mismatch will occur. For example, "An overhead line" on Tag:electrified=contact_line and "An overhead line." on Item:Q6997. Or "Oberleitung" on DE:Tag:electrified=contact_line and "Oberleitung." on Item:Q6997. They are both not in sync now because of the "." at the end. So if you change on one page, it would be nice if you could also change on the other corresponding page. --Chris2map (talk) 15:37, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
  • Ok, I was unaware of this link - linking to the database. After fixing it is Ok? See item Q6997 / Q110701. --HaPe-CZ (talk) 16:09, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
Sorry, no. That has nothing to do with Wikidata. I didn't want you to change anything at Wikidata. – It is about OSM Wiki pages: For an example, please have a look at Tag:electrified=contact_line. There you can see the infobox on the right side of the page. Below Description there is the text "An overhead line", and this text is stored on that wiki page. You have to edit the wiki page to change the text. And in addition, there is the data item Item:Q6997 that is linked to the wiki page. The data item stores a copy of the data in the infobox. But this copy is not updated automatically. If someone changes the description text line on the wiki page or in the data item, the copy no longer is the same in both places. The copy must also be changed by the one that changed the description. – If you look at Tag:electrified=contact_line you can see a red pencil behind the description text in the infobox. That is because you added a "." to the description text in the data item. One now has to edit the wiki page and add the "." also there. --Chris2map (talk) 19:43, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
Here is an example in Czech language: The description text in the infobox on Cs:Tag:barrier=bollard should be the same like on Item:Q4767. But one was changed and so they mismatch and the other one has to be changed, too. --Chris2map (talk) 19:51, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
  • Hi, thanks for the good help on the problem. The current status is already Ok?--HaPe-CZ (talk) 06:30, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
Yes, it's OK. --Chris2map (talk) 08:08, 18 March 2025 (UTC)

Data item labels

Each data item for a tag has one label, stored as English but really neutral. There is no need to duplicate it as Czech. Andrew (talk) 12:19, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

Then you can see the obvious is the same. What's the matter with that?

Translating labels on data items

I wanted to meddle as little as possible with the topic of "labels" in other languages. But do you have any support for your addition of "labels" to data items in Czech? --Chris2map (talk) 15:31, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

No instructions prohibit or restrict this. It is logical for an item to have a description in the national version. --HaPe-CZ (talk) 15:36, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
You might find it logical, but in my opinion, the OSM/Wiki community's practices come first, logical or not. I'm also not sure if there are any technical aspects that should be examined and considered first. --Chris2map (talk) 15:54, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
No restrictions (written by the community) are mentioned here ... see ... https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:NewItem --HaPe-CZ (talk) 15:58, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
I completely agree with you that the definition and documentation for the use of data items is incomplete. But a lack of documentation isn't a good justification for unilateral action, is it? --Chris2map (talk) 18:13, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
Your answer has no logical basis. In other words... Something is not forbidden and therefore it is forbidden?. One of the items for creating Items (Qxxxx) is just a label in the national language. Nothing else is there. Then it is logical to add the other labels for the other Items (Qxxxx) separately. It is a great pity that Oivo357 has destroyed many labels in national languages, sometimes very exotic. --HaPe-CZ (talk) 18:28, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
I didn't say it is forbidden. Because I don't want to and I don't can forbid it. That is why my initial question was for interest if there is any opinion or tendency in Czech user community to set labels. It's been a while now when the majority hasn't used the labels. That's what I mean by community's practices. And if one change something, it can be worth a discussion. --Chris2map (talk) 18:41, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
So if someone doesn't use it, no one else can? That's like if I'm not hungry, no one else can be hungry? If someone made labels for a national setting, that has some meaning, doesn't it? If they don't use it, it doesn't matter and the items can be filled anyway.
P.S.: User Oivo357 already replied? --HaPe-CZ (talk) 18:47, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
To emphasize again right away: I do not have complete knowledge of how the data items are implemented here in the OSM wiki and how their use was intended in detail or for what reasons their use is as it is, so far, e.g. regarding translation of labels. The underlying system (Wikibase) wasn't developed specifically for OSM. Therefore, a feature that exists doesn't necessarily mean it's suitable for use in OSM. That's why I'm asking whether your way of using it (translating labels) is considered or coordinated. Previous practice was largely a (tacit) consensus not to translate labels. Therefore, my position remains that we should first know and discuss the reasons for this before changing it. --Chris2map (talk) 07:57, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
But I don't want to change anything in the system (Wikibase). The table of entries (Qxxxx) is fine with me. I just fill in the blanks (new) entries in the national environment that I know. I don't edit other existing entries (label, description, alias) in another language, only in "En" and only if I create a new entry (e.g. Q23022). For one item (Qxxxx), I noticed the new addition of the "Finland" label. Thus, the interest in adding national labels is still active but is unnecessarily suppressed (banned). Why have hundreds or thousands of labels in different languages been added before? Why is user Oivo357 destroying them now? It is only his provocation. Why is Oivo357 still not communicating? Isn't that weird? --HaPe-CZ (talk) 08:14, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
I did't meant changes to the system, but to the use. With "Therefore, a feature that exists ..." I mean, that only because of there are language fields for the labels, it is questionable if they should be used in OSM. – To the topic "translation of labels" in terms of content let's discuss at Talk:Data_items#translation_of_labels. --Chris2map (talk) 09:39, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

Can I ask you, are you a native speaker in the languages for which you are adding labels to data items? E.g. in "pt" or "tr"?
In my opinion, the following approach would be appropriate at this time:

  1. To continue the discussion and hear more voices and opinions, then try to find a consensus or understanding. At Talk:Data_items#Translation_of_labels_(follow-up) and additional forums.
  2. Leave it up to country specific communities and native speakers, if and how they want to deal with it.

--Chris2map (talk) 15:08, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

@Chris2map:

  • add1) No I'm not. But:
    • a) The original text of the item was certainly written down by a native speaker.
    • b) The original text of the item was checked with an online translator and the result was correct.
  • add2) Ovio wrote on the talk page that he agrees, yet continues to delete items.

Add next: User Oivo357 is certainly not a native speaker of all the languages that are used in OSM entries, yet he deletes them and doesn't even know what he's deleting, Portuguese, Italian, Spanish including Korean, Japanese, Hyduin, etc...

I've looked at it further more and I want to apologize for the words about labels in different languages, which implies that you add labels in other languages. The 2 cases are re-entries of labels deleted by Oivo357. All other label additions are in Czech. But you are quiet active there. As you have probably noticed, I'm of the opinion that no translation should be entered in the lable fields. I hope there will be more voices on this on Talk:Data_items#Translation_of_labels_(follow-up).
Regarding edits of Oivo357, I see them, but I'm having difficulty assessing the quality and accuracy of the translations, as I have no knowledge of Czech or Slovak. I'm trying to find additional support here. --Chris2map (talk) 19:15, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
  • The problem here is not only in the Czech and Slovak languages. It is global, Ovio257 deletes EVERYTHING that is not English (Label of Items). Including languages that are not Slavic. Deleting and editing texts in other languages should primarily be done by native speakers. --HaPe-CZ (talk) 06:26, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

label inquiry

Please, respond at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wiki:Requests_for_administrator_attention#Edit_war_User:Oivo357_and_User:HaPe-CZ before making edits to labels in Czech language Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 10:14, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

Please, answer there why you thought this edit was vandalism (or retract your accusations) before making any edits to labels Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 09:18, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
To reiterate: please answer there why you thought this edit was vandalism (or retract your accusations) before making any edits to labels or description in any language. Otherwise your account will be blocked. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 14:45, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

edit war

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Item:Q265&action=history - please stop such edit wars

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wiki:Requests_for_administrator_attention#Edit_war_User%3AOivo357_and_User%3AHaPe-CZ has more info Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 09:15, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

Image removal

Please do not restore images, which has been removed for copyright reasons. You always can find a better replacement, however. Thanks. Something B (talk) 09:06, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

Original image is legitimate - CC BY-SA 2.0 --HaPe-CZ (talk) 09:08, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
No evidence of CC-BY-SA-2.0. File page is empty. Uploader not claim source, not claim own work. So this file is suspicious in copyright sense. Something B (talk) 09:13, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
see: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Dscf1407-600.jpg , The license is listed at the bottom of the page (footer). "Content is available under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 license unless otherwise noted." --HaPe-CZ (talk) 09:17, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
This notice not affect uploaded files, especially if they has been downloaded from Internet and uploaded to this wiki. Maybe this photo comes from press agency? Who knows? Uploader (FrankM) newer claim "I took this photo". Something B (talk) 09:30, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
This is not an argument, you are just trying to make your point but have no evidence only conjecture. “Uploader (FrankM) newer claim ”I took this photo“.” everyone has to write that in there and the subject confirms he is the author. Provide proof that the photo is from a news agency or other source similarly ... --HaPe-CZ (talk) 09:37, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
See Template:Assumed-CC-BY-SA-2.0-self User:Mateusz_Konieczny/notify_uploaders Something B (talk) 09:43, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
See also Talk:Wiki#Legal_requirements_to_images_or_media_files Something B (talk) 09:52, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
There is no contradiction with the specific picture and description. You're just manipulating the facts. --HaPe-CZ (talk) 09:57, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
Example of the file with proper license File:Schwimmbad.jpg
This media file was uploaded by author of the work and its copyright holder.
Please compare it with uploads by FrankM. Something B (talk) 10:03, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
When an author uploads an image to the wiki database, they are automatically notified that they are uploading it under a “freedom” license. If they do not agree to this, the image is not uploaded. In other words, the author has uploaded the image knowing that they are using a “free” license. --HaPe-CZ (talk) 10:09, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
You are sure that upload interface has always been like this? Something B (talk) 10:25, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
"If they do not agree to this, the image is not uploaded" - upload interface was changed at some point. Also, many accounts uploaded clear copyright violations so it is not viable to assume this (note: I am involved in this case and I will be not taking admin actions) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 12:51, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

edit war

@HaPe-CZ: - what kind if knowledge of Czech language you have? Are you using automated translation to edit OSM Wiki?

Oivo357 @HaPe-CZ: - please cease reverting each other without discussing it

  • please create talk page discussion if you are reverting each other
  • if talk page discussion exists please discuss things there, rather that edit war
  • feel free to discuss CZ definitions using CZ language, English is not needed (though, if descriptions are broken in some version, being specific what and how was broken may help in judging situation)
  • I am sadly not CZ speaker (but I am trying to reach out to CZ community) - if results will be inconclusive or there will be no answer I may need to block based on behaviour not content (I really prefer to avoid that)
  • blocks were issued in past, and may be issued again
  • HaPe-CZ - last edit on 16:32, 25 September 2025 as of now
  • Oivo357 - last edit on 13:06, 25 September 2025 as of now

Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 17:38, 25 September 2025 (UTC)

@Mateusz Konieczny: ... You probably didn't notice that I was the first to ask for a solution to the current situation. The reason for this is precisely to avoid editing conflicts and to try to resolve the situation peacefully. Your immediate threat to block me is somewhat nervous, and you should reconsider this. --HaPe-CZ (talk) 19:53, 25 September 2025 (UTC)
I noticed it, and it is appreciated when it is done instead of edit warring. I will issue block in case of edit warring or if someone makes broken edits (on level of "adding autotranslated labels" not on level "made a typo or dubious stylistic choice"). I jumped to mentioning blocks as it is reoccurrence of similar case. But I really would prefer to avoid blocking people. It is quite stressful for me as it is about editing quality in language unknown to me so I need to locate issues claimed to be problematic and then verify them Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 05:06, 26 September 2025 (UTC)
And sorry for also stressing you back! I hope that it can be resolved without blocking anyone and I appreciate that you notified about problem rather than edit war Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 05:07, 26 September 2025 (UTC)
Note: if you commented and other user edits elsewhere without responding or is inactive for some time: it is fine to proceed with edits Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 14:59, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

Ok, Thx --HaPe-CZ (talk) 07:37, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

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